It is becoming more and more a political issue to have more tests.
Pupils sit down and test. If they test correctly, they have learned what we have wanted them to learn.
Maybe there are other ways to teach that are harder to explain to the people we need to report to, because the results are harder to see. Are there? Are we neglecting basic fundamental ways of teaching?
And secondly, on the larger scale, are we moving forward or going back to the middle-ages in the way we teach these days? Give an example from the classroom of where you stand on this issue.
April 13, 2006
Good Morning,
This question must have been meant for me since I was around durning this period.
Actually the political issues governing tests are becoming more political and unfortunately more off the mark. It seems that we are going back to needing a quantification or score for everything in order to justify progress.
It is my opinion that we are doing harm to life long learning at the sake of instant quantification of a score that might only address short term memory.
It really depends on what we mean by basic fundamentals or are we addressing prior knowledge that is a physical change in the brain. Basic fundamentals such as the times tables has been moved forward to the third grade for students in the United States to learn. This would address the fact that they are pretty much memory along with understanding yet nondeclarative in the long term. [unconscious as contrasted with declarative that contains facts and more knowledge about how something works] [E. Kandel].
Secondly, we are not really moving back to the middle-ages since we are overtly questioning doctrine and we would not do that during that period. We still have a long way to go however in convincing the public that education is individualized and each person unique. The education of the brain does demonstrate that knowledge is affected by prior knowledge[physical changes in the brain; neuronal networks] and that understanding something just a little bit, is indeed not something to build on.
Teacher's jobs have changed however, since we really must be closer to the public when we teach for complete understanding. Then the adults see the correlation and reasoning.
Rob
thanks, great breakdown in opinion of the big picture, good to hear reactions,
and others?
try to come from specific experiences in the classroom, if you can,
bye, sTephen
It is especially interesting to me that Soundings requires tools and activities to help students make the shift into self directed learning. Quote:
For example, students play a questioning game in which they begin with a basic question, such as, "What did you have for breakfast?" and then try to create as many questions as they can that evolve from this initial question:
This part of the process is key to helping students believe that they have control over their destination with material and content.
A teacher who can get kids motivated using play effectively helps them find a relatedness and an energy that only play is capable of generating. Once in that zone, kids can then productively search, contribute, and define an individual role.
And this can move beyond the 'project-based' model which, in large part Sounders seems to be, into individual explorations in language expression, writing, speech, debate, and advanced articulation of complex ideas such as economics and political theory.
Sounders appears to be a solid program for advancing a missing degree of freedom in classrooms everywhere, but the sticky point is this: many educators have a hard time using play and games, especially ones that are not competitive and invite group cohesion.
And, even more sticky, the dominant culture is play-averse. Tools must be used which keep the energy sustained. And teachers must be given the training, and, more important, the trust and the freedom to experiment and grow into a Sounder's like environment. Sounders seems to have evolved over a period of time under the care and feeding of one teacher. Replicating it for mass application--which, whether we like it or not--has become the challenge of education--would not be easy.
May 8, 2006
Good Morning,
Keep up the good work....Play is a good form of learning....yes, you will have much of the population feel that play is not meant to be in schools and is not educationally beneficial, but be smart...bring your parents along and have them be a part of the solution...also....you do not have to play every minute...choose your time of the day wisely, and don't over do any one method of education.
I like it.
Best,
Rob
May 8, 2006
Good Morning
The example of experiential learning thus truly manifests the sensory inclusion and dramatic change to real learning. True, there is a non-declarative learning and memory along with declarative learning and memory. But the real point here is that the students are learning by experiential involvement. The memory tends to go long term for easy retrieval...both procedurally and declaratively....our job as teachers is to be sure the children learn....our job is to prove it to the higher ups...we can do that.....Address the superintendent's cabinet, address the school site council, address the Board of Trustees.....
Best,
Rob
Dear Rob,
can you give an example from your classroom on how you incorporate play and learning - maybe with the class you are teaching now?
or..what are the current challenges with your class right now? are you planning, in the future, to create any teaching with play?
thanks (and thanks for all the info in past posts! on soundings too)
stephen
you have asked very important questions..and the answers are YES..we r overlooking others ways of teaching but these will come out with time! right now, we r all concentratin on ONE.
tearszsz Wrote:you have asked very important questions..and the answers are YES..we r overlooking others ways of teaching but these will come out with time! right now, we r all concentratin on ONE.
Good Morning Tearszsz
Sometimes I find it easier also to concentrate on one way of teaching. The teaching of a student or whole classroom should be FUN most of the time if not all of the time. My students whether in University or grade school enjoyed [had fun] answering questions with no penalty. They would not be graded but would answer a question the best they could and other students would answer their question with no grade or penalty. The purpose was to get them all talking to each other about a subject. The correct answer most usually came up by the end of the lesson. The students felt part of the class or group and enjoyed trying. Acceptance is everything....
Best,
Rob
Hi Forum,
ok, so talking more about benchmark testing, joel klein, the schools chancellor of new york city schools, has proposed to grade his SCHOOLS too, with marks of A - F, not just with the simple Satisfactory or unsatisfactory,
it will depend on...
how individual student's test scores IMPROVE from one year to the next (instead of measuring, say, last year's fourth grade class to this years' forth grade class) if I did pretty poorly on my math test in 4th grade, but then improved a little on it in fifth grade, this school would get a good grade...is it clear?
and then the school's grade will be measured on a set of satisfaction surveys to be completed by parents, teachers and students,
Joel Klein argues that the "no child left behind act" is a SNAPSHOT but this approach would be more effective, "you'll be able to look at a MOVING PICTURE"
any thoughts on this? OR on measuring a schools performance?
also some lingering questions I have.
is this placing MORE emphasis on standardized testing?
and what happens if the principal gets an F??? and if the school gets an F, can the parents choose the school that gets an A?? and change schools?
Schools today are really full of evaluative exams. It is like being in a military school for boys, you need to do good in this level to go to the next. Why is that? Do these tests really help the students?
Thanks very much for posing this question. Does all of this testing help the students? The answer would depend on what goals we have for our students. Do typical standardized exams help students become active citizens, caring community members or creative thinkers? Probably not. Do they help students learn basic mathematics? Maybe, maybe not. Take a look at the discussion above on Nel Nodding's
"What Does It Mean to Educate the Whole Child?"
What are our goals for our students?
Cheers,
Christina Hinton
I do not think that testing helps kids in the long run.