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Would teachers be interested in discussing how mature aged people with dyscalculia have managed to succeed in a world without numbers? I am a senior Library Technician working at beautiful Bribie Island Library Queensland Australia and I would enjoy sharing my life skills, especially the way my brain has retrained itself in many areas.

Kathy Hopson
Kathy Hopson Wrote:Would teachers be interested in discussing how mature aged people with dyscalculia have managed to succeed in a world without numbers? I am a senior Library Technician working at beautiful Bribie Island Library Queensland Australia and I would enjoy sharing my life skills, especially the way my brain has retrained itself in many areas.

Kathy Hopson

This is what I hoped this forum woul be!!! Pkease tell us.
Kathy Hopson Wrote:Would teachers be interested in discussing how mature aged people with dyscalculia have managed to succeed in a world without numbers? I am a senior Library Technician working at beautiful Bribie Island Library Queensland Australia and I would enjoy sharing my life skills, especially the way my brain has retrained itself in many areas.

Kathy Hopson

Hi Kathy, it was good to see the subject of Dyscalculia raised. Yet the major problem at the moment, is that most teachers and also people who have this condition, are not even aware that it has been defined as a specific learning problem. Most often students are simply accused of 'not trying hard enough'.
Your offer to share the strategies that you have developed to retrain your brain, to overcome this obstacle, would make a valuable contribution to this little understood subject.
Whilst Dyscalculics may be able to get through primary/elementary school with basic Maths assistance, the major dilemna arises when confronted with secondary Maths, where no assistance is generally provided.
Which is perhaps where the skills that you mentioned may be of considerable help to both Dyscalculics and Teachers.
Espescially given that without such strategies/ skills, their future study and work opportunities will be very restricted.
Also it is invaluable for Dyscalculics to hear about people who have overcome this obstacle and succeeded in areas which would seem an impossibility.
Your position as Senior Library Technician suggests such an example

I might also mention a recently launched website: http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com

Geoff.
Hi Geoff, : Smile One thing I have discovered that effects dyslexics as well as dyscalculia students is there ability to hide the fact they do not understand maths in Highschool absolutly brilliantly.

By the time students have reached Highschool they already have a peer group, High school students do not need to be classified or labelled as "Special" or in need of Special Education. The embarressment felt leads to psychological damage later - I know - I call it the "shame psychology" the feeling of "what's wrong with me?". Students certainly do not need to attend other classes because their Maths teachers do not understand their specific needs. When I did not pass Kindergarten math, instead of going into Primary School I was made to go back and repeat second grade before I could go into Third class. Can you imagine what my peers thought of their friend still in baby math - while they had advanced to Primary School. And so the humiliation, embarressment and shame begins.

One method I suggest is peer help - by that I mean if it wasn't for the kid sitting next to me all through High School doing my Math for me I would never have had a lunch break. She was a friend and she wanted me to have lunch with her and my other friends. It's ironic that the slower kids in the class get penalised isn't it? How many teachers have told a child "your lazy" or "not trying" or "you havn't been concentrating"- so you have to miss out on Lunch time and do your math to catch up- often with no help by the teachers.

Peer help is simply working with the student and those friends who are comfortable helping the student out. Often students have great innovative ideas to teach their friends what they have already grasped. In fact most students in classes feel an empathy as they may have weakness in study areas themselves. Poor in math may mean excelling in English - let the students swap information and learning between them - obviously with teacher supervision.

Teachers may see the student as a class clown - acting up or is it possible you may never have noticed the student at all? the quiet student who tries to make themselves as small as possible because they are in their own private hell. Once I was made to stand beside another student and we had to answer correctly the questions the math teacher was asking - the times table. It was a competition and we had to make our way up the class room. I answered exactly a split second after my friend - (after I had heard the answer) we made it up the class room a step at a time with me just behind the the other student. Did the teacher know? - of course not she just said "shame you were not just a little bit quicker than the other student in your answers"

How did I get through High School Math without passing a single test?
Being great at Art I did all my friends title pages in their subject books - in return they did my math - simple as that. This wasn't devious of me I wasn't deliberatly misleading my teachers or cheating myself. It was a matter of survival and keeping up with my peers was more important than keeping up with the Math curriculum.

I would love to hear from teachers about problem students they may have and simple tests I can give you that enable you to see really quickly how much - or how little your gifted non-mathematical students are. Smile

Cheers for now
Kathy
I have a friend who coped similarly with school and dyslexia, so I understand your problem.
My issue with this though is if children are not able to achieve the required standard in the class, how are they going to catch it up, if they do not put extra time into it?
I have a mildly dyslexic child who struggles particularly with reading and writing, and I know he struggles so much that he is developing an absolute loathing of anything to do with schoolwork. This makes any extra-mural work with him difficult as he immediately puts up a barrier against learning.
Yet I know that if I do not try to get him to practise at least a little, he will fall further and further behind at school and hasten him being lost to the system. Sad

What do you suggest?
Hi Kathy,
You raised many issues, though I'd just like to pick up on your mention of the all to common accusation by teachers of students; Your lazy/ Your not trying hard enough/ Your not concentrating ... .
But even worse still, these days, is that rather than recognising a learning problem, and introducing an appropriate strategy. Students are simply defined as having a behaviour problem.
Where not trying hard enough, and lack of concentration are conveniently labelled as ADD/ attention deficit disorder.
With Drugs being seen as the solution to the learning difficulty?
Given that Drugs wont help in anyway with Dyscalculia, Dyslexia or numerous other Learning Disorders. Students, despite trying their hardest, are still continually accused of not trying hard enough.
Overtime, these ongoing accusations often quite naturally cause students to react with some hostility.
Where conveniently ADD is upgraded to ADHD, with hyper-activity introduced into the answer.
Having been diagnosed as ADHD, responsibility is then left to the Drug Corporations to come up with a solution to the learning problem.
The education system can effectively pass the responsibility on to someone else.
Yet, their is also the backup to this, where the Parents are accused on not developing suitable behavioural control in their children.
Of course Parents can question why the School has not attempted to more precisely define their child's learning difficulty, and put in place an effective remedial program. So long as they can afford to pay for a Lawyer to present their position.
But perhaps an even worse consequence, is that rather than recognising the neurological diversity in the ways of learning, that exist. This diversity is classed as 'disorders'. Which in turn results in many students finishing school with the confidence in their capacity to learn, totally destroyed!
Where I would conclude by saying that the overarching objective of schooling, should be to instill in every student, confidence in their capacity to learn. To help each student recognise their own unique way of learning, so as to enable them to realise their own full potential.
Rather than being 'shamed' with a learning disorder, we should all feel empowered by the uniqueness of our learning diversity!
Genuine recognition of this diversity, can only lead to greater diversity in understanding. Where currently unknown and unrealised potential can be tapped into.
Geoff. Smile
LizTill Wrote:I have a friend who coped similarly with school and dyslexia, so I understand your problem.
My issue with this though is if children are not able to achieve the required standard in the class, how are they going to catch it up, if they do not put extra time into it?
I have a mildly dyslexic child who struggles particularly with reading and writing, and I know he struggles so much that he is developing an absolute loathing of anything to do with schoolwork. This makes any extra-mural work with him difficult as he immediately puts up a barrier against learning.
Yet I know that if I do not try to get him to practise at least a little, he will fall further and further behind at school and hasten him being lost to the system. Sad

What do you suggest?

Hi Liz,
In regard to this extra time to catch up, you speak of. If it is not offered in a specific mode which addresses precisely the learning difficulty. Then a child will only see it as punishment, with little actual remedial benefit.
Also it may just reinforce bad or ineffective practises?
For example, you mention that your son has mild dyslexia.
Where different approaches are required, in relation to Motor, Visual or Auditory Dyslexia. Or combinations of these?
In which case, if the extra work is not tailored to address the precise learning difficulty. No real benefit will be obvious from the extra work, resulting in a loss of motivation.
My basic point, is that it is important that the benefit of this extra work time needs to be self evident, so as to maintain motivation.


Geoff.
geodob Wrote:Hi Liz,
In regard to this extra time to catch up, you speak of. If it is not offered in a specific mode which addresses precisely the learning difficulty. Then a child will only see it as punishment, with little actual remedial benefit.
Also it may just reinforce bad or ineffective practises?
For example, you mention that your son has mild dyslexia.
Where different approaches are required, in relation to Motor, Visual or Auditory Dyslexia. Or combinations of these?
In which case, if the extra work is not tailored to address the precise learning difficulty. No real benefit will be obvious from the extra work, resulting in a loss of motivation.
My basic point, is that it is important that the benefit of this extra work time needs to be self evident, so as to maintain motivation.


Geoff.


Thank you for your reply, Geoff. You have given me food for thought, and I will approach his teachers with regard to more specific tasks to help him with specific areas of learning. Smile
January 21, 2006

Dyscalculia is a disorder in the brain or is it? Where in the brain is the disorder and what does it do? Is there a cure for dyscalculia or is medication treating the symptoms...
Be well,
RobSmile
2-04-06
MorningSmile

I thought we might all be interested in some information regarding dyscalculia. Retrieved 2-04-06from the internet when reviewing DSM IV Dyscalculia...Those who are interesting might like this..good read.
RobSmile
URL: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&...tnG=Search
Note: PLEASE READ THE DEVELOPMENTAL DYSCALCULIA...
Hi RobSmile
It was interesting to look at that page of links?
Though the shame of it, is that it contains so much outdated information?
It does explain where a lot of the misinformation comes from.
As well as the confusion?

Though it did at least contain Butterworth's Dyscalculia Screener, which is concerned with Numerosity Dyscalculia. Or Sense of Number.

Yet their no mention of Visual Spatial Dyscalculia.
Which is a predominant sub-type.

Though the shame of it, were the articles that appear to associate Procedural Dyscalculia with ADHD. Rather than recognising it as a Working Memory issue.

Geoff.